Dark Side and Honda Warranty

[willtill]

This is exactly the article I was referring to! Before anyone jumps to conclusion, there is one very important fact that is not addressed, to my knowledge, in this article, and that is what amount of pressure it takes too break the bead when dismounting a tire. Been there on every occasion that I had a tire mounted/unmounted and believe me when I say it takes as much or more effort of the tire machine or hand bead breaker to break the bead on a cycle or car tire. Not scientific evidence by any means but a visual of the bead breaking operation is worth a thousand words. When the tire is aired up and you have that distinctive "pop" you know dam well the bead is seated. This is JMHO. Been doing Dark Siding for so long its the norm for me. Never, in almost 100,000K miles of DS riding, have I had a issue with bead separation.

And I do understand what you are describing. Beads can be a REAL BITCH to break. The interlocking design of a tire's bead and the wheel rim is what grabs my attention though. It is succinctly addressed in the article. Especially the forces at work on the bead of the tire; as the vehicle stresses it during maneuvering.

With that being said... the study on paper looks good. The amplified stressing. The opposing forces at work that could negate the lack of interlock of tire bead against rim design. It's exacting. In real life... it does not always play out as expected. Or does it?

I have never heard of a dark side catastrophically destructing... but I have seen some undesirable wear on C/T sidewalls ... I understand that to be a matter of the wrong pressure/inflation though.

[bob109]

I have never heard of a dark side catastrophically destructing... but I have seen some undesirable wear on C/T sidewalls ... I understand that to be a matter of the wrong pressure/inflation though.

Here's a few pics of a General G-Max which delivered 30,300 miles of service, mounted on my F6B OEM rim. Other than some "scalloping" on the outer thread/tread edge there is not a sign of any "side wall" wear! Capturing ones personal experience with a good narrative and plenty of pictures goes a long way in helping to clarify the "what ifs" of Dark Siding!

DSC_0009.jpgDSC_0001.jpgDSC_0004.jpgDSC_0002.jpg

My personal safety is paramount! That said, I use due diligence and leave nothing to chance when selecting a CT for use on my cycles. I closely monitor air pressure in finding and maintaining a "Sweet Spot" PSI setting for good handling and overall thread/tread wear. After my tires are removed I love taking the bolt cutters, razor knife and hack saw, if need be, and dissecting the tire casing. There is nothing like a cross sectioned view of a tire to get a first hand and up close look at its construction and what remains of the thread/tread thickness. Call it "peace of mind" if you will. In ending, I find it rather amusing that Motorcycle Tire Manufacturers are always in a quest for a "Heavy Cruiser Cycle Tire" which delivers any reasonable longevity at a reasonable price. Finding the "Holy Grail" may be easier

[shooter]

And I'm telling you guys that in the real world the CT does not fit the Goldwing rim like in that picture. I mount all my own tires and as of now I have a G-Max and an Alpin mounted up and that large bead area in that picture sticking up along that edge is not present on my tires. Don't know if the GW rim is different than other MC rims or not but the bead fits that rim good. And Wayne let me tell you something brother , don't ever believe what people tell you. There are a lot of haters out there and most of them are dumbass know-it-alls. They can't find their ass with both hands on a dark night but they are experts cause they read something or heard something. I would much rather listen to someone like Big Larry or Bob 109. These guys are pioneers. They have lived it. Through this forum and Bob I got started on Darkside and my experience has been great. I ride hard and mostly two up. Wife and I ride the curviest roads available in KY , AR , OH , and MO. I'm not the best rider out there by a long shot but I don't take a back seat to too many people. My B corners better than any big cruiser I've been around. My Dad taught me to always be a leader and never a follower. I feel like with my Alpin I have the best combination of durability and handling I've ever had on a MC. I like my CT. No body told me to say that. I came up with that on my own.

[bob109]

I would much rather listen to someone like Big Larry or Bob 109. These guys are pioneers. They have lived it. Through this forum and Bob I got started on Darkside and my experience has been great.

Shooter

I'm flattered by you kind comment of me being a pioneer in the Dark Side Arena, but that is far from the fact/truth. I'm actually a product of a man named "Daniel Meyer". He is the one who is truly the Pioneer in/of the use of CT's on motorcycles. I'm sure there were others, but Mr. Meyer was one of, if not the first, to publish a book on the Dark Side Experience. He now has several books under the title of "Life Is a Road" and they are some of the most informative works of the DS I've read/encountered. A Engineer, pilot and author, his background supports his findings/observations with relevance and humor. If someone is interested in the art/practice of Dark Siding, Meyer's works are a "must read" IMHO. I'm attaching a source for his works!

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV...WU3gsQQyKiW28-

I think what is most important about our practice of Dark Siding is that we readily share our experiences with others. You, as a Tire Dealer/Installer are in a position to offer informative and first hand info on mounting/balancing etc. Your experience in that area is "priceless". Along with all the other actual first hand experiences of our DS Riders, a "treasure trove" of info begins to develop! Along with our Administrator and Moderators ability and diligence in consolidating that info in a specific Forum for Dark Siding that really is the "icing on the cake"! We are lucky to have a venue where we can openly discuss a topic which is oft avoided and scoffed at on other forms

Ride Safe

bob109

[wiggy]

Shooter


I think what is most important about our practice of Dark Siding is that we readily share our experiences with others. You, as a Tire Dealer/Installer are in a position to offer informative and first hand info on mounting/balancing etc. Your experience in that area is "priceless". Along with all the other actual first hand experiences of our DS Riders, a "treasure trove" of info begins to develop! Along with our Administrator and Moderators ability and diligence in consolidating that info in a specific Forum for Dark Siding that really is the "icing on the cake"! We are lucky to have a venue where we can discuss a topic which is oft avoided and scoffed at on other forms

Ride Safe

bob109

I don't think I could have said it any better than what Shooter summed up. Thanks to all who've commented on this thread. Between Valkyries, Wings, and now F6bs, there are thousands of Darksiders, I'm sure, and I've never once heard of a car tire coming unseated and losing pressure.

I personally know a friend and his wife who were both hurt with broken bones when their rear tire suddenly went flat and he lost control. This rider had over 100k miles of riding experience. Btw, he was running an Avon Cobra, one of the more popular motorcycle tires.

Ride Safe,
wiggy

[willtill]

Shooter

I'm flattered by you kind comment of me being a pioneer in the Dark Side Arena, but that is far from the fact/truth. I'm actually a product of a man named "Daniel Meyer". He is the one who is truly the Pioneer in/of the use of CT's on motorcycles. I'm sure there were others, but Mr. Meyer was one of, if not the first, to publish a book on the Dark Side Experience. He now has several books under the title of "Life Is a Road" and they are some of the most informative works of the DS I've read/encountered. A Engineer, pilot and author, his background supports his findings/observations with relevance and humor. If someone is interested in the art/practice of Dark Siding, Meyer's works are a "must read" IMHO. I'm attaching a source for his works!

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV...WU3gsQQyKiW28-

Good read.

[willtill]

And I'm telling you guys that in the real world the CT does not fit the Goldwing rim like in that picture. I mount all my own tires and as of now I have a G-Max and an Alpin mounted up and that large bead area in that picture sticking up along that edge is not present on my tires.

My honest curiosity (and my main concern) is of what one cannot see; once the car tire is mounted onto the motorcycle wheel. Does the lower foot of the tire bead; seat firmly between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange... with no gap?

No gap here:



Do the current car tires that some of you are running; present a snug fit between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange?

[bob109]

My honest curiosity (and my main concern) is of what one cannot see; once the car tire is mounted onto the motorcycle wheel. Does the lower foot of the tire bead; seat firmly between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange... with no gap?

No gap here:



Do the current car tires that some of you are running; present a snug fit between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange?

Your question is very valid and IMHO will go unanswered until someone is "bold enough" too take a car tire mounted to a cycle rim, aired up to 40+PSI and subject it to a CT Scan at some Clinic or Medical Facility. That would definitely provide "proof positive" by giving a "cross sectioned view" of a "inflated" tire/rim fitting. Hopefully, amongst all the DS Riders, we have someone who will answer that question. Unfortunate as it may be, the cross sectioned pics provided to date are not truly reflective of a "inflated tire" The original author of the article surely deserves credit for his efforts in "sectioning" both a donor tire/rim. Without evidence of inflation there's some additional research to be done

[Phantom]

My honest curiosity (and my main concern) is of what one cannot see; once the car tire is mounted onto the motorcycle wheel. Does the lower foot of the tire bead; seat firmly between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange... with no gap?No gap here:Do the current car tires that some of you are running; present a snug fit between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange?

Will,The steel belts and air pressure will keep the tire seated where it belongs. IMO the amount of CT side wall/bead making contact has been proven over and over to be more then enough to keep the tire in place.

Side wall strength concerns .....Just remember that most CT's are designed and built for much more weight and stress.
My current CT on my 4 wheeler is rated to a maximum of 1,521 lbsOur Rear Bridgestone G704 is rated to a maximum of 827 lbs.

When you place a CT on a Bike like the F6B, don't forget that you are distributing the weight of the bike between the 2 tires, the CT is lucky to be holding 750 lbs of weight (F6B=900 +2 healthy passengers=600 ---> 1,500 lbs). The side walls are designed to handle much higher weight, abuse and stress on a 4 wheeler then they will ever encounter on a motorcycle.

If you are able to rack up the miles .....CT's are definitely a great alternative.

[shooter]

My honest curiosity (and my main concern) is of what one cannot see; once the car tire is mounted onto the motorcycle wheel. Does the lower foot of the tire bead; seat firmly between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange... with no gap?

No gap here:



Do the current car tires that some of you are running; present a snug fit between the wheel's bead hump and the side of the wheel's bead flange?

I can tell you that yes it is a very tight fit. I generally takes more than 20 lbs of air pressure to seat that bead on a CT on a GW rim. And when you break it down it takes considerable pressure to break the bead.