Dark Side and Honda Warranty

[Wing'n it]

They (insurance companies and Honda) absolutely could use any excuse to avoid paying any claim or warranty. Don't know that they would or have any reason to even look but THEY COULD. Even pulling a trailer is an excuse not to pay. I guess the best way to look at it is to think how you would NOT have to pay a claim if it was a suspect claim...

[BIGLRY]

Here is more than you will ever want to know with pic about the differences between Ct and a MC rim & tire construction with a whole lot more thrown in. This guy went to a lot of time and effort to do this and is a good read. http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/...-rim-tire.html
I have been a darksider on all my other steel steeds at one time or another and probably will be again on my F6B and now after reading the article a much more informed darksider about the construction of CT verses MC tires and their respective rims.

[Wing'n it]

I went darkside on my 2002 Wing and never really noticed much difference. However I tried it on the VTX in my sig. and that was a total disaster! That bike handled so poorly with a CT on it that is was not save to ride. Funny how some bikes will accept a CT and other will not.

[BIGLRY]

I went darkside on my 2002 Wing and never really noticed much difference. However I tried it on the VTX in my sig. and that was a total disaster! That bike handled so poorly with a CT on it that is was not save to ride. Funny how some bikes will accept a CT and other will not.

I had the same issues on one of my VTX1800, it was not until I changed tire brands an played a lot with air pressure that I felt comfortable with a CT on that one particular VTX I have. No more Riken Raptor CT like the one below on a MC for me.



.

[wjduke]

Here is more than you will ever want to know with pic about the differences between Ct and a MC rim & tire construction with a whole lot more thrown in. This guy went to a lot of time and effort to do this and is a good read. http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/...-rim-tire.html
I have been a darksider on all my other steel steeds at one time or another and probably will be again on my F6B and now after reading the article a much more informed darksider about the construction of CT verses MC tires and their respective rims.

I'm at work and don't have the time to read this top to bottom, but it's about as comprehensive a report that you'll ever see. That's a fantastic find BIGLRY. I've said it on my other forum and will here too...Without reading that report in full, I'll never mount a CT on any bike I own. To me, and my opinion only, it just doesn't add up. After seeing those photo's on tire/wheel bead contact points, I feel stronger about it. Me and shooter are pretty good buddies, even though we never met. We're both in the tire business. He swears by them. It's one of those things, that's all I can say. I would never ever tell anyone not to. It's my choice only.

[willtill]

Here is more than you will ever want to know with pic about the differences between Ct and a MC rim & tire construction with a whole lot more thrown in. This guy went to a lot of time and effort to do this and is a good read. http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/...-rim-tire.html
I have been a darksider on all my other steel steeds at one time or another and probably will be again on my F6B and now after reading the article a much more informed darksider about the construction of CT verses MC tires and their respective rims.

This is a fascinating article

I've read the article... actually skimmed over a lot of it, but I read enough. I now have since drawn a conclusion. I will not run a car tire on a motorcycle rim. I have been contemplating it off and on over the years; but this article just nailed that coffin shut.

"Bead lock" "Bead hump" Two very important terms... and the article explains the mechanical lock of the tire bead -vs- the inability for it to occur... if wheels and tires from cars/motorcycles are mixed.

Pictures explaining the differences and the forces that actually lock the tire bead to the rim... this referenced article really explains it well.








Thanks BIGLRY

[bob109]

This is exactly the article I was referring to! Before anyone jumps to conclusion, there is one very important fact that is not addressed, to my knowledge, in this article, and that is what amount of pressure it takes too break the bead when dismounting a tire. Been there on every occasion that I had a tire mounted/unmounted and believe me when I say it takes as much or more effort of the tire machine or hand bead breaker to break the bead on a cycle or car tire. Not scientific evidence by any means but a visual of the bead breaking operation is worth a thousand words. When the tire is aired up and you have that distinctive "pop" you know dam well the bead is seated. This is JMHO. Been doing Dark Siding for so long its the norm for me. Never, in almost 100,000K miles of DS riding, have I had a issue with bead separation.

[BIGLRY]

This is exactly the article I was referring to! Before anyone jumps to conclusion, there is one very important fact that is not addressed, to my knowledge, in this article, and that is what amount of pressure it takes too break the bead when dismounting a tire. Been there on every occasion that I had a tire mounted/unmounted and believe me when I say it takes as much or more effort of the tire machine or hand bead breaker to break the bead on a cycle or car tire. Not scientific evidence by any means but a visual of the bead breaking operation is worth a thousand words. When the tire is aired up and you have that distinctive "pop" you know dam well the bead is seated. This is JMHO. Been doing Dark Siding for so long its the norm for me. Never, in almost 100,000K miles of DS riding, have I had a issue with bead separation.

I concur with your observations and with almost as much mileage darksiding under my belt with various brands of motorcycles and using a CT on them I feel perfectly safe in their use. I only posted so everyone who had ? about the differences between tires and rims could see and read for themselves and make up their own mind.
I am a firm believer you can never have to much information, anecdotal along with empirical to make an informed, well rounded, educated decision.

[willtill]

This is exactly the article I was referring to! Before anyone jumps to conclusion, there is one very important fact that is not addressed, to my knowledge, in this article, and that is what amount of pressure it takes too break the bead when dismounting a tire. Been there on every occasion that I had a tire mounted/unmounted and believe me when I say it takes as much or more effort of the tire machine or hand bead breaker to break the bead on a cycle or car tire. Not scientific evidence by any means but a visual of the bead breaking operation is worth a thousand words. When the tire is aired up and you have that distinctive "pop" you know dam well the bead is seated. This is JMHO. Been doing Dark Siding for so long its the norm for me. Never, in almost 100,000K miles of DS riding, have I had a issue with bead separation.

And I do understand what you are describing. Beads can be a REAL BITCH to break. The interlocking design of a tire's bead and the wheel rim is what grabs my attention though. It is succinctly addressed in the article. Especially the forces at work on the bead of the tire; as the vehicle stresses it during maneuvering.

With that being said... the study on paper looks good. The amplified stressing. The opposing forces at work that could negate the lack of interlock of tire bead against rim design. It's exacting. In real life... it does not always play out as expected. Or does it?

I have never heard of a dark side catastrophically destructing... but I have seen some undesirable wear on C/T sidewalls ... I understand that to be a matter of the wrong pressure/inflation though.

[bob109]

I have never heard of a dark side catastrophically destructing... but I have seen some undesirable wear on C/T sidewalls ... I understand that to be a matter of the wrong pressure/inflation though.

Here's a few pics of a General G-Max which delivered 30,300 miles of service, mounted on my F6B OEM rim. Other than some "scalloping" on the outer thread/tread edge there is not a sign of any "side wall" wear! Capturing ones personal experience with a good narrative and plenty of pictures goes a long way in helping to clarify the "what ifs" of Dark Siding!

DSC_0009.jpgDSC_0001.jpgDSC_0004.jpgDSC_0002.jpg

My personal safety is paramount! That said, I use due diligence and leave nothing to chance when selecting a CT for use on my cycles. I closely monitor air pressure in finding and maintaining a "Sweet Spot" PSI setting for good handling and overall thread/tread wear. After my tires are removed I love taking the bolt cutters, razor knife and hack saw, if need be, and dissecting the tire casing. There is nothing like a cross sectioned view of a tire to get a first hand and up close look at its construction and what remains of the thread/tread thickness. Call it "peace of mind" if you will. In ending, I find it rather amusing that Motorcycle Tire Manufacturers are always in a quest for a "Heavy Cruiser Cycle Tire" which delivers any reasonable longevity at a reasonable price. Finding the "Holy Grail" may be easier