Dark Side and Honda Warranty

[Wing'n it]

I went darkside on my 2002 Wing and never really noticed much difference. However I tried it on the VTX in my sig. and that was a total disaster! That bike handled so poorly with a CT on it that is was not save to ride. Funny how some bikes will accept a CT and other will not.

[wjduke]

Here is more than you will ever want to know with pic about the differences between Ct and a MC rim & tire construction with a whole lot more thrown in. This guy went to a lot of time and effort to do this and is a good read. http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/...-rim-tire.html
I have been a darksider on all my other steel steeds at one time or another and probably will be again on my F6B and now after reading the article a much more informed darksider about the construction of CT verses MC tires and their respective rims.

I'm at work and don't have the time to read this top to bottom, but it's about as comprehensive a report that you'll ever see. That's a fantastic find BIGLRY. I've said it on my other forum and will here too...Without reading that report in full, I'll never mount a CT on any bike I own. To me, and my opinion only, it just doesn't add up. After seeing those photo's on tire/wheel bead contact points, I feel stronger about it. Me and shooter are pretty good buddies, even though we never met. We're both in the tire business. He swears by them. It's one of those things, that's all I can say. I would never ever tell anyone not to. It's my choice only.

[BIGLRY]

I went darkside on my 2002 Wing and never really noticed much difference. However I tried it on the VTX in my sig. and that was a total disaster! That bike handled so poorly with a CT on it that is was not save to ride. Funny how some bikes will accept a CT and other will not.

I had the same issues on one of my VTX1800, it was not until I changed tire brands an played a lot with air pressure that I felt comfortable with a CT on that one particular VTX I have. No more Riken Raptor CT like the one below on a MC for me.



.

[willtill]

Here is more than you will ever want to know with pic about the differences between Ct and a MC rim & tire construction with a whole lot more thrown in. This guy went to a lot of time and effort to do this and is a good read. http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/...-rim-tire.html
I have been a darksider on all my other steel steeds at one time or another and probably will be again on my F6B and now after reading the article a much more informed darksider about the construction of CT verses MC tires and their respective rims.

This is a fascinating article

I've read the article... actually skimmed over a lot of it, but I read enough. I now have since drawn a conclusion. I will not run a car tire on a motorcycle rim. I have been contemplating it off and on over the years; but this article just nailed that coffin shut.

"Bead lock" "Bead hump" Two very important terms... and the article explains the mechanical lock of the tire bead -vs- the inability for it to occur... if wheels and tires from cars/motorcycles are mixed.

Pictures explaining the differences and the forces that actually lock the tire bead to the rim... this referenced article really explains it well.








Thanks BIGLRY

[bob109]

This is exactly the article I was referring to! Before anyone jumps to conclusion, there is one very important fact that is not addressed, to my knowledge, in this article, and that is what amount of pressure it takes too break the bead when dismounting a tire. Been there on every occasion that I had a tire mounted/unmounted and believe me when I say it takes as much or more effort of the tire machine or hand bead breaker to break the bead on a cycle or car tire. Not scientific evidence by any means but a visual of the bead breaking operation is worth a thousand words. When the tire is aired up and you have that distinctive "pop" you know dam well the bead is seated. This is JMHO. Been doing Dark Siding for so long its the norm for me. Never, in almost 100,000K miles of DS riding, have I had a issue with bead separation.

[BIGLRY]

This is exactly the article I was referring to! Before anyone jumps to conclusion, there is one very important fact that is not addressed, to my knowledge, in this article, and that is what amount of pressure it takes too break the bead when dismounting a tire. Been there on every occasion that I had a tire mounted/unmounted and believe me when I say it takes as much or more effort of the tire machine or hand bead breaker to break the bead on a cycle or car tire. Not scientific evidence by any means but a visual of the bead breaking operation is worth a thousand words. When the tire is aired up and you have that distinctive "pop" you know dam well the bead is seated. This is JMHO. Been doing Dark Siding for so long its the norm for me. Never, in almost 100,000K miles of DS riding, have I had a issue with bead separation.

I concur with your observations and with almost as much mileage darksiding under my belt with various brands of motorcycles and using a CT on them I feel perfectly safe in their use. I only posted so everyone who had ? about the differences between tires and rims could see and read for themselves and make up their own mind.
I am a firm believer you can never have to much information, anecdotal along with empirical to make an informed, well rounded, educated decision.

[willtill]

This is exactly the article I was referring to! Before anyone jumps to conclusion, there is one very important fact that is not addressed, to my knowledge, in this article, and that is what amount of pressure it takes too break the bead when dismounting a tire. Been there on every occasion that I had a tire mounted/unmounted and believe me when I say it takes as much or more effort of the tire machine or hand bead breaker to break the bead on a cycle or car tire. Not scientific evidence by any means but a visual of the bead breaking operation is worth a thousand words. When the tire is aired up and you have that distinctive "pop" you know dam well the bead is seated. This is JMHO. Been doing Dark Siding for so long its the norm for me. Never, in almost 100,000K miles of DS riding, have I had a issue with bead separation.

And I do understand what you are describing. Beads can be a REAL BITCH to break. The interlocking design of a tire's bead and the wheel rim is what grabs my attention though. It is succinctly addressed in the article. Especially the forces at work on the bead of the tire; as the vehicle stresses it during maneuvering.

With that being said... the study on paper looks good. The amplified stressing. The opposing forces at work that could negate the lack of interlock of tire bead against rim design. It's exacting. In real life... it does not always play out as expected. Or does it?

I have never heard of a dark side catastrophically destructing... but I have seen some undesirable wear on C/T sidewalls ... I understand that to be a matter of the wrong pressure/inflation though.

[bob109]

I have never heard of a dark side catastrophically destructing... but I have seen some undesirable wear on C/T sidewalls ... I understand that to be a matter of the wrong pressure/inflation though.

Here's a few pics of a General G-Max which delivered 30,300 miles of service, mounted on my F6B OEM rim. Other than some "scalloping" on the outer thread/tread edge there is not a sign of any "side wall" wear! Capturing ones personal experience with a good narrative and plenty of pictures goes a long way in helping to clarify the "what ifs" of Dark Siding!

DSC_0009.jpgDSC_0001.jpgDSC_0004.jpgDSC_0002.jpg

My personal safety is paramount! That said, I use due diligence and leave nothing to chance when selecting a CT for use on my cycles. I closely monitor air pressure in finding and maintaining a "Sweet Spot" PSI setting for good handling and overall thread/tread wear. After my tires are removed I love taking the bolt cutters, razor knife and hack saw, if need be, and dissecting the tire casing. There is nothing like a cross sectioned view of a tire to get a first hand and up close look at its construction and what remains of the thread/tread thickness. Call it "peace of mind" if you will. In ending, I find it rather amusing that Motorcycle Tire Manufacturers are always in a quest for a "Heavy Cruiser Cycle Tire" which delivers any reasonable longevity at a reasonable price. Finding the "Holy Grail" may be easier

[shooter]

And I'm telling you guys that in the real world the CT does not fit the Goldwing rim like in that picture. I mount all my own tires and as of now I have a G-Max and an Alpin mounted up and that large bead area in that picture sticking up along that edge is not present on my tires. Don't know if the GW rim is different than other MC rims or not but the bead fits that rim good. And Wayne let me tell you something brother , don't ever believe what people tell you. There are a lot of haters out there and most of them are dumbass know-it-alls. They can't find their ass with both hands on a dark night but they are experts cause they read something or heard something. I would much rather listen to someone like Big Larry or Bob 109. These guys are pioneers. They have lived it. Through this forum and Bob I got started on Darkside and my experience has been great. I ride hard and mostly two up. Wife and I ride the curviest roads available in KY , AR , OH , and MO. I'm not the best rider out there by a long shot but I don't take a back seat to too many people. My B corners better than any big cruiser I've been around. My Dad taught me to always be a leader and never a follower. I feel like with my Alpin I have the best combination of durability and handling I've ever had on a MC. I like my CT. No body told me to say that. I came up with that on my own.

[bob109]

I would much rather listen to someone like Big Larry or Bob 109. These guys are pioneers. They have lived it. Through this forum and Bob I got started on Darkside and my experience has been great.

Shooter

I'm flattered by you kind comment of me being a pioneer in the Dark Side Arena, but that is far from the fact/truth. I'm actually a product of a man named "Daniel Meyer". He is the one who is truly the Pioneer in/of the use of CT's on motorcycles. I'm sure there were others, but Mr. Meyer was one of, if not the first, to publish a book on the Dark Side Experience. He now has several books under the title of "Life Is a Road" and they are some of the most informative works of the DS I've read/encountered. A Engineer, pilot and author, his background supports his findings/observations with relevance and humor. If someone is interested in the art/practice of Dark Siding, Meyer's works are a "must read" IMHO. I'm attaching a source for his works!

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV...WU3gsQQyKiW28-

I think what is most important about our practice of Dark Siding is that we readily share our experiences with others. You, as a Tire Dealer/Installer are in a position to offer informative and first hand info on mounting/balancing etc. Your experience in that area is "priceless". Along with all the other actual first hand experiences of our DS Riders, a "treasure trove" of info begins to develop! Along with our Administrator and Moderators ability and diligence in consolidating that info in a specific Forum for Dark Siding that really is the "icing on the cake"! We are lucky to have a venue where we can openly discuss a topic which is oft avoided and scoffed at on other forms

Ride Safe

bob109