Quote Originally Posted by adventurous1 View Post
From the little I've read about Irwin Schiff, I believe he was correct on many things but what I thought he was dead wrong was placing zero on a tax return (at least I think it was him) when the Courts repeatedly said "...that's frivolous", yet he kept doing it. People like Schiff seem to write these monstrous and voluminous books with soooooo much info, it's difficult to grasp it all (though I believe the essence is completely accurate). And the basic premise Schiff kept telling people they don't have to file; however if those same people used a TAX ID # then they are a TAXPAYER, and thus liable for TAXES. Saying anything contrary to this simple fact - will have a disastrous legal impact. As Schiff discovered a few times - and believe he was finally sentenced for 'contempt of court' not any other crime - but I may be mistaken.

Also, it seems that Hansen guy learned from his dealing with the Courts, he then tweaked some of his paperwork and approach to deal with some things that may be problematic. Read a book by a guy named Otto Skin or Skinner years ago. (I remember the name Otto because him and Otto Preminger are 2 guys with that name that I've ever heard ). Anyway, Otto's book was very basic, simple to read, and waaaay ez to comprehend.

What I do not understand with many of these 'tax patriot' people is that they never tell Citizens to simply stop using a TAX ID number to work (maybe they do, I don't know). But, it seems extremely simple. Now, I say that because I've been doing it for 14 yrs - without a problem. However, I do understand, if a citizen has worked at a company for 10 or 20 yrs, or in some union trade or whatever, where they've give a prior # to a payor, then the worker is screwed.

btw, the legal department at ADP told me years ago, that the 'default #' for people who do not provide a number is '555-55-5555'. Apparently, some or all payroll / accounting/ bookkeeping software programs needs "a number" for the software system to go to the next page in that operating system. Payors and colleges / universities seem to use the "555-55-5555".

Just the opposite, Schiff didn't say not to file he said to file, just file zero returns. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that zeros on a return constituted a valid return. As far as liability, nowhere in the IR Code does it make you liable for an income tax. They will point to Section 61 ,however, that section mentions gross income but never defines what income is because the Supreme Court defined it already which is the result of the combination of labor and capital = corporate profit, thats why all corporations zero out at the end of the fiscal year, no profit - no tax. The IR Code never makes a distinction between a corporation or a person because they are the same - legal entities.

The 1040 makes you list wages, salaries. tips etc. except the way it should be read is if you notice the word in big, bold letters to the left of that "INCOME". You have no wages, salaries, tips etc. FROM income so zero is the only valid answer. Wages, salaries and tips are sources of income not income themselves. Thats why Schiff would tell you to go to your due process hearing and bring the IR code with you and have the agent point to where it makes you liable for the tax, never one instance of any agent ever being able to do it. His work was voluminous because he prepared you for court. In essence all his work was summed up in compliance "I want to pay, however, before I do verify the debt for me and show me the bill." and they couldn't, conditional acceptance and they couldn't meet the conditions, very powerful stuff if you do it right.