Update on Dwight

[Big Dawg]

Big Dawg, try not to beat yourself up over this. I know you mentioned that several have "lost it" trying to follow you (I believe you mentioned 12). The reality is that the admonition to "ride your own speed" was brought up several times and, in this particular case, you made a special attempt to advise this rider after noticing he was struggling a bit in the corners. I don't know what else you could have done. The fact is that when you lead a group on a ride such as this, sooner or later, something is bound to happen. As a previous pastor of mine reminded us, it's the "nature of human nature" that often leads to problems. Personally, I appreciate your efforts to lead what I would call a reasonable, spirited ride. The larger issue here is how our group should handle future rides. Should there be a fast group separate from the "regular" group? Inevitably, there will be a rider who wants to be associated with the fast group whether he is fast or not. Therein lies the problem.

Hornblower, I just hate it when folks get themselves into trouble. When the Dark Side Riders had their rally at the same Hotel this past July, they had several groups. The biggest complaint was the people that signed up for the spirited rides that had no concept as to how to ride in the mountains much less, ride at a decent pace.There are a lot of Dark Side riders that I have work to stay with, and I love riding with them. For example, Hwy 28, the road out of Franklin, is a 55 mph posted limit, even when it gets twisty. I can't maintain 55 in a lot of those corners and most cars don't. A lot of the corners have yellow curve signs with a recommended speed on them but it doesn't mean that you are breaking the law if you go faster than the recommended speed. It is still a 55 MPH zone. The section of 28 where Dwight crashed was a 45 post limit. At 35 in the corners, with the wife on the back, I was dragging pegs. I guess we were getting away from him and he wanted to catch up to us. Sadly, had he waited 4 more corners, we would have been sitting at the stop sign.

Over the years, especially the last 30, I have ridden Harleys, cruisers, sport bikes(I have owned 6 Hayabusa's) and sport touring bikes in the mountains a lot. Three summers in a row, I went out West, to find and ride the twistiest roads in the country. I have attended several road racing schools and I went road racing for a while. I took my oldest son all the way to the AMA pro road racing circuit. To put things into perspective, Even when I'm on a crotch rocket, following him, after a couple of corners, he is out of sight. I am smart enough to know that I can't keep up with him, so we just regroup at the stop signs. I routinely ride with others who are faster than I am but thankfully I have never crashed following them. I know and understand my limits.

I recently bought a house in Franklin, NC so that it would be easier for me to keep bikes up there to ride. I still have several other bikes that I like to ride up there too. I have a ZG 1400 Kawasaki Concours, The Goldwing, and a Ninja 1000 and Yes, there have been a lot of guys go down following me. I can't explain it and don't understand why. I'm from Savannah, Georgia where everything is flat and straight. Around home, there is no challenge for riding a bike. I don't care about riding fast(in a straight line) I figured out a long time a go that you are an easy target if you do. If I did want to haul ass, I would get out on the interstate and blow it out. I enjoy the challenge of riding the mountain roads and showing folks around. I always preach, "ride your own ride" I have had friends get mad with me, saying that I was trying to run off and leave them, even with my wife on the back. I try to explain that I am riding my ride and I guarantee that I am more comfortable at my pace than they are at theirs. I love teaching folks how to ride the corners, and have successfully taught a large group how to relax, challenge a corner, be smooth, not scare the crap out of themselves and have fun. Then there are those who (think they) know how to do it and those who won't listen.

Having said all that, if you ever want a coach to help you improve your corner skills, I will be glad to share any information with you. Be safe and remember, RIDE YOUR RIDE. If you are not comfortable keeping up with the guy in front of you, then don't kill yourself trying

[MSGT-R]

It is Human nature to rise to the occasion, but having the internal ablity to recognise one's limitations is a bit harder to do during the excitment.

No one can predict, nor evaluate, a rider's ability on a first-time meeting for a group ride. Stuff like this happens at every large meet, not just this one. We hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Big Dawg, don't beat yourself up over this.
Dwight, heal up first, then figure out the rest later.

Shit happens, and everyone's number comes up eventually. What we learn from it and how we go forward is what counts.

[jkelley]

Big Dawg,

Lot's of people either don't understand what you are saying, or refuse to believe. Just because you can make a bike go down the interstate does not mean you can ride one! I agree with you and what some of the others are saying. We see this kind of thing weekly around here. Even highly skilled riders suffer accidents here because the conditions can change in a flash. From a moist area on the road due to a shady spot, or a damp painted line, not to mention the numerous critters, oil spots, trash. hazards are everywhere. Fact is we are adults, and have all chosen a hobby with risks. Good decisions or bad unfortunately accidents happen.

[Phantom]

BigDawg,

As others have said, don't beat yourself up on this. Every rider is responsible for their own ride/actions .... period.

I admire and enjoy watching skilled riders all of the time, it is like watching art in motion or listening to a beautiful song. I personally don't have those skills and know my limitations.

THANK YOU for leading the Sunday ride, it was very nice and everyone enjoyed it. Could have done without the rain but we rode for the conditions and I appreciated that.

Leading rides is like herding cats, it is not easy. For next year, I propose group rides broken up into smaller groups of 6-8 bikes with all ending up at the same location. The scenery, the curves, the fun of it all, the camaraderie, checking out the mods, the ribbing of each other and great times is what I like about these events.

BidDawg, would love to see you and your lovely wife join us next year again. Doing a pre-ride before the event to determine routes is a good idea and I just have to figure out when.

[Big Dawg]

Big Dawg,

Lot's of people either don't understand what you are saying, or refuse to believe. Just because you can make a bike go down the interstate does not mean you can ride one! I agree with you and what some of the others are saying. We see this kind of thing weekly around here. Even highly skilled riders suffer accidents here because the conditions can change in a flash. From a moist area on the road due to a shady spot, or a damp painted line, not to mention the numerous critters, oil spots, trash. hazards are everywhere. Fact is we are adults, and have all chosen a hobby with risks. Good decisions or bad unfortunately accidents happen.

Very true, that is exactly why I never ride at a 100% and even then there is no guarantee that I won't bust my ass. I am a student of "situational awareness" and even then, there are still things that will bite you. I have hit 2 dogs in the past 2 years, one at 55 mph that almost broke my right leg, and another one that ran across the interstate while I was running 75. The impact cut that one in half. By the grace of God, I managed to keep the bike upright on both of those occasions. It is the cars that scare the hell out of me. Guys, it is a proven fact that when you ride a motorcycle, it isn't a question of "if" you might fall down, it is a question of "when". I think that challenge is one of the reasons that we ride these damn things. Another reason is it is one of the things that I can still do well from my younger days and it keeps me feeling young. However, I am smart enough to know the risks and be able to accept the consequences if the worst happens. I never want to sit on the porch and wish that I have ridden the Beartooth, LoLo Pass, the Million Dollar Highway, Pacific Coast, CA 36, Oregon route 3, Cherohala, BRP from end to end, and dozens of other roads that are in the top 50 motorcycle roads in the USA. At least now, I can say that I had the opportunity to ride them. To quote a good friend of mine and fellow dark side rider, The 'Trialsman' "It is only an old man's bike if you ride it like one"

[Frontier509]

Godspeed on your recovery Dwight!

[Westernbiker]

My two cents for what it is worth. IF, you are the leader (Ride Captian) on a group ride, YOU! are responsible for the group! I don't care if it's one, two, three or forty bikes and riders. It is part of YOUR job to keep the group together and to NOT ride off and leave them! If you want to ride fast, do it by yourself and not on group function days, events and rides! If you cannot restrain yourself, then you are not the one to lead a group ride. 'Ride Captain' ALWAYS has the groups best interest in mind when leading a group and explains the rules of the ride to the group before it leaves for the ride.
I do NOT ride in groups any more due to a couple reasons, one I just stated above. The second reason is groups are dangerous to ride in. Even tough you may know all the riders and their skill levels, CRAP happens. Most or maybe all of you heard about the dump truck driver running over a group of motorcycles here in Arizona. That was my group. I lost four friends that day. All good riders but made some mistakes and all of you have made them if you group ride, I know I have. Sometimes in a group ride you tend to 'FOLLOW' not really paying attention as you have ridden with this group for years and are comfortable with everyone and their skills that are around you. This group made some key mistakes. At the stop light the lead bikes were too close to the cars in front of them, that was a mistake, always leave yourself room to get out of the way. Second, the other bikes pulled up too close to the lead bikes. And third and most important and you have done it to, if you group ride allot and if you say you haven't you are probably not tell the truth. When the group pulls up next to each other at a light, you tend to maybe chat a bit with your buddy next to you or your passenger and NOT looking out for danger behind you! So, with all this happeneing, throw in a DUMP TRUCK coming up from behind and not going to stop!
I will get off my soapbox now, sorry, I am very passionate about group rides and how they tend to get riders in trouble and allot has to do with the so called 'Ride Captain'.

[MNF6B]

My two cents for what it is worth. IF, you are the leader (Ride Captian) on a group ride, YOU! are responsible for the group! I don't care if it's one, two, three or forty bikes and riders. It is part of YOUR job to keep the group together and to NOT ride off and leave them! If you want to ride fast, do it by yourself and not on group function days, events and rides! If you cannot restrain yourself, then you are not the one to lead a group ride. 'Ride Captain' ALWAYS has the groups best interest in mind when leading a group and explains the rules of the ride to the group before it leaves for the ride.
I do NOT ride in groups any more due to a couple reasons, one I just stated above. The second reason is groups are dangerous to ride in. Even tough you may know all the riders and their skill levels, CRAP happens. Most or maybe all of you heard about the dump truck driver running over a group of motorcycles here in Arizona. That was my group. I lost four friends that day. All good riders but made some mistakes and all of you have made them if you group ride, I know I have. Sometimes in a group ride you tend to 'FOLLOW' not really paying attention as you have ridden with this group for years and are comfortable with everyone and their skills that are around you. This group made some key mistakes. At the stop light the lead bikes were too close to the cars in front of them, that was a mistake, always leave yourself room to get out of the way. Second, the other bikes pulled up too close to the lead bikes. And third and most important and you have done it to, if you group ride allot and if you say you haven't you are probably not tell the truth. When the group pulls up next to each other at a light, you tend to maybe chat a bit with your buddy next to you or your passenger and NOT looking out for danger behind you! So, with all this happeneing, throw in a DUMP TRUCK coming up from behind and not going to stop!
I will get off my soapbox now, sorry, I am very passionate about group rides and how they tend to get riders in trouble and allot has to do with the so called 'Ride Captain'.

First, I wish Dwight a speedy recovery.

After reading this entire thread I have some thoughts. There is absolutely no blame that should be assigned to the "Ride Captain". The "Ride Captian" was leading the second group. The two VERY experienced riders made arraignments with the rest of the group to ride ahead and at an advanced pace. The third and fourth riders joined of their own volition. All four riders knew what they were going to be doing. At the first rest stop the third rider appeared to be in over his head based on the comments and questions. I was not there and only base this next comment on what I read. The third rider made a huge mistake trying to pass on a RH sweeping curve just to keep up with the other two. If I did not feel safe riding with the advanced group, I would have rolled back to the rest of the pack. I know my limits and always ride within them.

As for group rides....I have never been a fan. Group rides happen, its part of our MC fun and adventure. Slow and steady is the best way to roll on a group ride. Which is exactly what the 2nd group was doing and where Dwight should have been.

[Scotrod]

I sure love riding solo. No bickering over 'Captain' or Captain(s)',, or,,, anything else for that matter!!! LOL!!!

[Kawi69]

Best wish's Dwight, I hope your feeling better..God bless you..