Basic Rider Course 2 Skills Practice/Experienced Rider Course

[seadog]

There must be something like that in Michigan I would think as any skills you can pick up even at my age are worth they weight in gold for sure. Just smoothing out your everyday operation on the bike is worth spending the time.

[53driver]

There must be something like that in Michigan I would think as any skills you can pick up even at my age are worth they weight in gold for sure. Just smoothing out your everyday operation on the bike is worth spending the time.

Reading about the stuff you will hear about in classroom, be it either track or parking lot based course, is always goodness, yes?

In addition to Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II, this book is pretty darn good - great read, lots of stuff.
Also, this book became the basis for the MSF Advanced Rider Course.

https://www.amazon.com/Sport-Riding-.../dp/1893618072

[stillridin]

I'm not going to get entangled in the nearly half-century-old turf war over what is the "best" training regime. There was an industry group recently convened to try to assess why the current training/licensing schemes have not done more to reduce motorcycle fatalities/injuries/accidents.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...ider-training/
http://www.howardcc.edu/programs-cou...ider-research/ You can download the report in pdf at the bottom of this page.

In particular the report states right up front, "There is more than one way to achieve competence. We need to promote more acceptance of alternatives to parking lot training."

The particular training/licensing requirements in a state/province are of no consequence to me. Local providers can do that bureaucratic dance as required either in combination or separate from providing track day lapping for non-sportbike riders.

Each training/skill development approach has its merits and limits. The fact there are nearly no non-sportbike LAPPING ONLY trackdays (not full instructed programs) vs. literally dozens of sportbike/racing-speed trackday providers shows the bike industry reliance on outdated "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" marketing. Street riders are expected to pony up the cash for full-instruction sessions, whether on parking lot or track. And yet we street riders each mostly safely travel many thousands of miles/km per year. The constant media stream of "motorcycles are dangerous" messages doesn't help either. Never mind that the Hurt Report and all studies since show most fault in multi-vehicle motorcycle collisions lies with the car/truck driver. We are told that dubious research shows "older riders 3x more likely to be injured than younger riders" by an obviously well-orchestrated/funded mainstream media blitz, but the concurrent message that credible research shows older riders have a "brain age" as much as a decade younger than non-riders was never mentioned outside the moto-press.

Having ridden at track days/schools with most of the major providers here in Ontario, I can tell you there is nothing special about the street-applicable skill level of the average track rider compared to the average EXPERIENCED non-sport street rider. But "track training" gets a bad name because the track squids take their "skills" to the street at track speeds.

As an aside, having done both, I know to maneuver a track-prepped RR-sport bike at parking-lot speeds is less forgiving than a standard or touring bike. And even in normal street riding, the chicken strips on my F6B are far less than the "street" ones on my 600 were.

[53driver]

Stillridin - I did not mean for my response to come across in a negative way. There are merits to all training.
I concur with everything you have stated in both posts.

I try to play up all methods of learning, from books, to parking lots, to track.
As long as people are engaged in further learning - that is my goal.

All I was clarifying is that in the States, there are progressive classes for riders to take - licensing aside - rather than jump into a track scenario with nearly no time on bike or street experience.
And yes, a sportbike can be a real liability in parking lot scenarios, but some of my students had to find that out for themselves.

Cheers,
Steve

[VStarRider]

Here is an honest self-appraisal:

I have 25,000 miles and five seasons of riding experience.

I can do lock-to-lock turns (figure 8s) on my F6B, following a brief warm up, successfully about 75% of the time, without putting a foot down.

I can take sweeping curves at a fairly high rate of speed (not dragging a peg, though)

I am pretty good with U-turns within a two-lane road without putting a foot down.

Where I need improvement:

I need more confidence. I feel my physical riding ability exceeds my mental riding ability by quite a margin at times. I feel myself stiff and my own resistance to the natural flow required to easily steer the bike in turns, curves. When the margin is narrow, I feel much more at ease and the bike is far more manageable.

I have noticed that when there are accidents in the area on the news, or I have a close call like I did with the deer two weeks ago, it rattles me for the next several rides. I fear oncoming vehicles and am hyper-aware. This increases fatigue and makes riding a chore rather than a pleasure.

I think by learning and practicing more skills, feeling confident in executing them in an emergency, I can help boost my overall riding confidence.

[stillridin]

Rule # 1, ride your own ride.

I don't worry much about the feet-up low speed stuff, other than being able to move away with good control from a stop and get my feet up and into proper position to smoothly accelerate or negotiate an intersection turn. Police/MSF/licensing training regimes put a big emphasis on slow speed maneuvering which is a great start point for beginning riders and later look cool at the local donut hangout, but doesn't help in the areas you seem to feel you need improvement/confidence. I'll paddle the F6B around a parking lot if I feel I need to, I have nothing to prove to anyone, having survived over 35 years of street riding and accomplished a decade of zero-crash track riding.

You are correct that if the "feel" of riding your latest motorcycle doesn't come naturally, it requires practice to develop the confidence that your control inputs produce the desired outcomes. That said, the V-Stars (which I assume is where you logged the most distance) will have handled very differently than the F6B. I don't have a good "feel" for feet-forward low-riders like the V-Stars, having ridden standards and sportbikes for so long. The F6B is pretty much a "standard" or UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle), just at the high end of the weight category.

Countersteering is your friend as weight-shift muscling around an F6B will be a lot of work. The F6B is actually a very light-input bike for weighing over 800 lbs. And being tense will transmit steering or other inputs that you may not be aware of. The F6B brakes are very capable (almost too capable), even with the OEM pads. I do find using the rear pedal as the main brake is a bit weird, so I have reverted to the sportbike practice of the front lever as primary brake as I find it much easier to modulate than the pedal (on the F6B the front lever gives 1/2 the front pads and about 30% rear as well) .

And remember, your gas and brake are not on/off switches, they are like volume controls. Roll smoothly on and off the gas, squeeze the brakes. ABS is no replacement for learning good braking technique. Don't charge corners and grab at controls at the last second, give yourself enough time to comfortably roll off, gear down, brake and set your corner entry speed.

Ride a pace that you feel comfortable at, and do read Keith Code's books if you haven't. I find the "$10 worth of attention" a great way to think about where your focus may get stuck and make you feel insecure or tense. Target fixation may be a topic you want to read up on. Look where you want to go, not fixed on oncoming traffic. Absolutely be aware of scanning for hazards, including oncoming traffic, but don't let your attention get stuck there.

Ride safe, and have fun.
Art

[VStarRider]

Thanks for the reply. Please see responses below.

Rule # 1, ride your own ride.

I don't worry much about the feet-up low speed stuff, other than being able to move away with good control from a stop and get my feet up and into proper position to smoothly accelerate or negotiate an intersection turn. Police/MSF/licensing training regimes put a big emphasis on slow speed maneuvering which is a great start point for beginning riders and later look cool at the local donut hangout, but doesn't help in the areas you seem to feel you need improvement/confidence. I'll paddle the F6B around a parking lot if I feel I need to, I have nothing to prove to anyone, having survived over 35 years of street riding and accomplished a decade of zero-crash track riding.

You are correct that if the "feel" of riding your latest motorcycle doesn't come naturally, it requires practice to develop the confidence that your control inputs produce the desired outcomes. That said, the V-Stars (which I assume is where you logged the most distance) will have handled very differently than the F6B. I don't have a good "feel" for feet-forward low-riders like the V-Stars, having ridden standards and sportbikes for so long. The F6B is pretty much a "standard" or UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle), just at the high end of the weight category.

I actually don't blame the difference in the type of motorcycle. Yes, you are right, the F6B is a very different machine than my two VStars, despite both being "cruisers". The F6B is far more capable and far more confidence inspiring, and much more natural. My riding anxiety in those stretches I referred to where I feel my confidence isn't where it needs to be was actually greater on the VStars because of how they handled and I felt less visible on those bikes. My lack of confidence is based on external (close calls, horrific accident scenes, my doctor calling motorcycle riders "organ donors", etc) and internal (me) factors, not the F6B.

Countersteering is your friend as weight-shift muscling around an F6B will be a lot of work. The F6B is actually a very light-input bike for weighing over 800 lbs. I very much agree with this. The F6B is far easier to manipulate in tight spaces than the Vstars despite a 250 lb. weight difference. And being tense will transmit steering or other inputs that you may not be aware of. I agree, again. My tenseness makes the bike handle differently. The F6B brakes are very capable (almost too capable), even with the OEM pads. I do find using the rear pedal as the main brake is a bit weird, so I have reverted to the sportbike practice of the front lever as primary brake as I find it much easier to modulate than the pedal (on the F6B the front lever gives 1/2 the front pads and about 30% rear as well) . I primarily use the front brake lever (95% of the time).

And remember, your gas and brake are not on/off switches, they are like volume controls. Roll smoothly on and off the gas, squeeze the brakes. ABS is no replacement for learning good braking technique. Don't charge corners and grab at controls at the last second, give yourself enough time to comfortably roll off, gear down, brake and set your corner entry speed. I have no problem doing this. This skill set was one of the first I taught myself, thank goodness. The hesitation of the F6B motor during warm up makes this a challenge, especially if your first few miles are in town.

Ride a pace that you feel comfortable at, and do read Keith Code's books if you haven't. I have watched the Ride Like a Pro DVD and occasionally practice in parking lots, which boosts my confidence somewhat. I also practice swerving in and out of passing lines on empty roads, as well as practicing squeezing between manhole covers and the lane dividing line to get experience putting the bike in a small space. I find the "$10 worth of attention" a great way to think about where your focus may get stuck and make you feel insecure or tense. Target fixation may be a topic you want to read up on. This one is easy to practice, difficult to execute in a panic situation Look where you want to go, not fixed on oncoming traffic. Absolutely be aware of scanning for hazards, including oncoming traffic, but don't let your attention get stuck there.

Ride safe, and have fun.
Art

[stillridin]

V-Star:

Sounds like you're at a point where there is no "magic" to be had. Confidence doesn't always "just happen", even with the best instruction. But then sometimes something as simple as having the balls of your feet on the pegs rather than under the arches makes a world of difference. But I also know cruiser riders who do just fine with extreme feet-forward pegs and ape-hanger bars.

I notice you didn't confirm you routinely countersteer. If you do, good, but just in case... Countersteering is the best directional control at anything above a walking pace, so if you want to be able to quickly and accurate put the bike where you want it on the road (not the parking lot), practice countestreering until it is second nature. The idea it is "optional" on any modern (non-extreme cruiser) bike, especially an F6B is bad advice. Not understanding and routinely using countersteering to the point it is an ingrained, automatic neuromuscular response is a sure way to end up on the wrong side of the road when you least want it. The news stories about the biker, riding around a long open curve on a sunny dry day, suddenly veering into the front of a semi-truck? The trucker says "Ya the rider was going kinda fast and was a bit close to the center line, but then looked at me and suddenly changed direction and drove right in front of me"... That is a rider who didn't understand countersteering or target fixation, and I see at least a couple news stories of fatalities each year here due to it. I have lost track of the number of "close calls" caused by bad drivers where instinctive countersteering to the open space literally saved my life. I've dodged more than a few deer as well.

My response to friends, neighbours and others who feel the need to ask me "did you hear on the news about the guy/woman rider who crashed/was killed the other day?", inferring I should stop riding because bikes are dangerous, is to ask them if they also saw the deaths/collisions involving cars/trucks on the same news? And are they going to stop driving or tell everyone they know "cars/trucks are dangerous"? For those who try to dismiss me, I add pedestrians and bicyclists, who die in similar numbers/1000 as motorcyclists mostly due to driver error... are they also going to stop walking?

Hopefully your doctor was "joking", but remarks like that aren't jokes in my book. I'd find another doctor, but understand that's not as easy as it used to be. My doctor broke her pelvis off-road bicycling (she's in her late 50's, early 60's), but I didn't harass her about quitting that. Like me and my riding, she knew the risks, she could have been killed or disabled. I'm sure your doctor engages in some risky behaviour too, but would be insulted if you suggested he give it up. Running is healthy, right? Remember Jim Fixx? Ever had shinsplints from running? Or tennis? Yer doc better crawl in bed and pull the covers over his head just to be safe... LOL!

I still think the best place to practice techniques like street speed braking and countersteering are at the track, but the thorny issue of street-appropriate track coaching and lapping makes that impossible when you don't live close to Tony's Track Days/RITZ events. Otherwise, open view, deserted familiar roads have to suffice as practice space for those who can't afford to rent a road course.

That's about all I've got... enjoy the ride.

[willtill]

This is some very good reading.

[98valk]

I must be missing something.

How does a person ride a motorcycle without counter steering? I think everyone is constantly counter steering, whether they are making a minor adjustment, changing lanes or making a turn.

What other choice do we have?