New BMW Bagger

[Broken Hand]

I owned a K1200GT second generation and loved everything about it except for the cost for maintenance and the sparce dealer network. At one of the scheduled service the bike needed a ball joint and the part had to be shipped from Germany, taking 3 days to arrive and it wasn't the right one...so I had to wait another 3 days for the right part to arrive. I considered the K1600GT before buying my F6B but I just couldn't imagine being stranded hours from the closest BMW dealer and having to wait days for parts to be delivered.That new BMW bagger looks great though.

Honda dealership with a seasoned mechanic 1 mile away. BMW 2+ hours away.
Honestly, this BMW bagger still looks like a sport tourer to me. No thanks.

[mercator1]

I have to agree, BMW (and others) are building some exciting bikes these days, so they must spending much more on R&D than Honda. I remember the days, starting with the original CB750, when Honda completely dominated the motorcycle world. Every year or so they introduced a machine that sent everyone else back to the drawing board. The GL1000, the CBX, the 650 Turbo, the Interceptor, the NR bikes with oval pistons, not to mention the GL1500, were on the front cover of every motorcycle magazine. Today Honda is more focused elsewhere, giving motorcycles little more attention than their lawnmowers.

To their credit, Honda, with many of their recent products, is trying to create new markets for motorcycles. We're an aging group. I read a few years ago that the average age of Sturgis attendees was 58! Those are terrible demographics unless you're selling trikes!

One thing Honda still has going for it is reliability. I own a BMW, know friends with BMWs, and they are far from trouble free. The stories are backed up with numbers, too. A few years ago someone posted a clip on motorcycle reliability. I think it was from Consumer Reports, showing how many bikes needed repairs. Honda, along with Yamaha and Suzuki, were at the top with 11-12%. Victory wasn't bad at 17%. Harley was 26%, and Triumph was 29%. Can-Am was the worst at 42%, but BMW wasn't much better with 40%.

Yes, my brother's CB750 was the most unbelievable thing I'd ever seen when he bought it (1973 I think). Lately though, they haven't exactly been innovators. Interested on your opinion on what new markets Honda is creating. Seems like they they are at least 5 years late to the ADV market with the Africa Twin and 1200X. The only thing I've thought they were really groundbreaking with, in recent times, was the Grom, and I'm too old and fat for one of those.

[unsub]

I waited on Honda to upgrade their Electronics to justify me letting my 1200 RT go in favor of the F6B. I couldn't give up all of the better bells and whistles, but now I don't have to. I get the more workable form factor of the F6B with the better electronics of my BMW. Plus that K 1600 powerplant is a screamer.

In my memory electronics have never been an issue with Honda. Do you mean as in factory accessory options?

[unsub]

Thank goodness for corporate greed and profits. Without that, our only option might be motorcycles like the Ural!

Let's not forget the Dnepr.

[stroguy]

Attachment 24099

[Greg O]

For the money I paid for the F6B a little over a year ago was hands down a winner. I was in a different situation, I was coming off riding Harleys for nearly 20 years. I had a double fusion in my lower back 7 years ago and could not ride my Electra Glide for more than 1 hour at a time without it bothering my back. I gave up riding for 4 years and got the itch back. I didn't want to buy a $30,000 Harley and sell it for $25,000 the next year because of my back problems. I bought the F6B, I can ride this bike all day without back pain. The style of the F6B is great but it is lacking several creature comforts I like. 1. Great sounding stereo system.2. cruise control 3. Blue tooth 4. Navigation system. The BMW is a nice looking bike with all the features and safety features a bike should have. Money is not an issue for me, but reliability is. I am pretty confident the BMW will give me the ride I need for my back. I am not in the market for a new bike yet but I will look at the BMW when it comes out in the spring.

[unsub]

Attachment 24099

That came with a unique disassembly feature that other manufactures have yet to introduce.

[F6Dave]

Yes, my brother's CB750 was the most unbelievable thing I'd ever seen when he bought it (1973 I think). Lately though, they haven't exactly been innovators. Interested on your opinion on what new markets Honda is creating. Seems like they they are at least 5 years late to the ADV market with the Africa Twin and 1200X. The only thing I've thought they were really groundbreaking with, in recent times, was the Grom, and I'm too old and fat for one of those.

I was thinking of Honda's attempts to expand the touring market to younger crowds, with bikes like the CTX1300 and CTX700. Even the F6B and new Valkyrie were aiming at a younger rider than the full sized Wing. From what I've read none of those have been sales successes, but at least Honda recognizes the problem. Most of the riders I see are getting kind of old. I've been to several national Valkyrie rallies and the youngest attendee trophy usually goes to a guy well over 30. The average age has to be near 60, just like at Sturgis.

I remember the CB750, too. I was in High School when it was introduced, and some of us went to the dealer to look at one. As I remember it sold for around $1400, which was a lot for a kid like me driving (and making payments on) a $500 used VW. But what an incredible machine. It was light years ahead of the competition. The entire British motorcycle disappeared within a few years, and that CB750 was a major factor.

But Honda today is a very different company. You could see the vision and innovation begin to fade away after Soichiro Honda's death in 1991. They still make very high quality products, but the showrooms are no longer full of class-leaders. Exciting cars like the S2000 are gone from the lineup. Formula One fans will remember how Honda engines completely dominated the sport in the 1980s and 90s. Today they struggle to make the top 10.

The GL1800 platform was introduced in 2000, and is still a competitive ride today. That shows how good their engineering is. But imagine how good it could be if they still had Mr. Honda's passion!

[Wing'n it]

Looks a lot like the Kawasaki ZZR-1200 I had a few years back, nice bike but killed my knees. Not really a big fan of BMW stuff and fixing them is crazy expensive, wont roost one in my coop.

[pilotguy299]

I was thinking of Honda's attempts to expand the touring market to younger crowds, with bikes like the CTX1300 and CTX700. Even the F6B and new Valkyrie were aiming at a younger rider than the full sized Wing. From what I've read none of those have been sales successes, but at least Honda recognizes the problem. Most of the riders I see are getting kind of old. I've been to several national Valkyrie rallies and the youngest attendee trophy usually goes to a guy well over 30. The average age has to be near 60, just like at Sturgis.

I remember the CB750, too. I was in High School when it was introduced, and some of us went to the dealer to look at one. As I remember it sold for around $1400, which was a lot for a kid like me driving (and making payments on) a $500 used VW. But what an incredible machine. It was light years ahead of the competition. The entire British motorcycle disappeared within a few years, and that CB750 was a major factor.

But Honda today is a very different company. You could see the vision and innovation begin to fade away after Soichiro Honda's death in 1991. They still make very high quality products, but the showrooms are no longer full of class-leaders. Exciting cars like the S2000 are gone from the lineup. Formula One fans will remember how Honda engines completely dominated the sport in the 1980s and 90s. Today they struggle to make the top 10.

The GL1800 platform was introduced in 2000, and is still a competitive ride today. That shows how good their engineering is. But imagine how good it could be if they still had Mr. Honda's passion!

I think that part of Honda's problem is with their pricing strategy. Everyone knows that a $21k bike today, will be $15-17k next year if it hasn't sold. They need to price the bikes more competitively to begin with.

A prime example is the DN-01. I thought it was actually a cool bike, but the pricing was insane. It too dropped much lower as NOS, but by then the marketing damage was done.

Color choices is another area where Honda has missed the boat. The Forza scooter is actually a very decent bike, but only available in Honda Red in the US. Other color choices might have made it more sellable in the US. Same with some of the other bikes.

The CTX1300 deluxe is also a great bike, but their only really decent color is the slate blue, which is actually really sharp. The stock windshield is lacking.

The platforms themselves are pretty bullet proof, but it's the extra nicieties and price are what contribute to volume sales.