HARLEY SALES DOWN - LAYING OFF WORK FORCE

[SimonTemplar]

Do you remember in the not-too-distant past that Harley attitude of no deals, no discounts...........

No need to remember that. My local dealership is still trying to do business that way yet today. I know a woman who went in, with checkbook in hand, prepared to write a check for the full MSRP (as per the HD website) price of a RoadGlide. They refused to sell it to her for that...instead demanding significantly more for the bike. When she asked why they would not accept the price the company spec'd...they told her she was stupid to think she could buy one for that price.


Smart girl.....she walked. Purchased it a county away the following day.




.....sT

[ReserveBum]

Yesterday I had a conversation with my dealer who is pretty knowledgeable. I asked about our F6 not on Honda's 2017 line up and he said he wasnt surprised. But he said sometimes Honda releases more models later in the year. He said the whole industry is down. Said Yamaha has dropped some models also. His dealership is Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and also sell ATV's and snowmobiles and have laid off one of their salesmen. Also said they picked up CFMoto and Kymco ATV's and that has helped them stay afloat

[opas ride]

Yesterday I had a conversation with my dealer who is pretty knowledgeable. I asked about our F6 not on Honda's 2017 line up and he said he wasnt surprised. But he said sometimes Honda releases more models later in the year. He said the whole industry is down. Said Yamaha has dropped some models also. His dealership is Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and also sell ATV's and snowmobiles and have laid off one of their salesmen. Also said they picked up CFMoto and Kymco ATV's and that has helped them stay afloat

Pretty much what I am hearing and seeing around here in SE Michigan area...My Honda dealer has not sold a GW or F6B in weeks and is one of the largest Honda dealers in Michigan. They also sell Yamaha's which are also not moving off the floor...GM said they only sold 3 F6B's so far this year and they were leftover models.. Hopefully things will get better next year, but they also have nothing new on any of the 2017 model line up as yet....Doubt the F6B will be around any longer although.....Ride safe

[VStarRider]

Okay, this is making me nervous...big picture:

-Harley is laying off employees due to slow sales
-Ford has suspended production of the F-150, Mustang and Taurus due to excessive inventory
-We have had 87 months of economic growth, one of the longest stretches in between recessions

Economists say that the auto market always precedes the full economy and use it as an indicator. Harley sales are dropping (I actually hope it is just from an overpriced and outdated lineup), and according to Opas Ride, his dealer is facing slow sales for all brands. I was at my snowmobile dealer yesterday and the place was a ghost town (though his business has been winding down for years).

I wonder if we are on the cusp of an economic slowdown. How is the RV market doing? That's another major indicator.

Wages and median income were up 5% last quarter so maybe these outcomes are indicative of something else smaller than the economy as a whole.

[lake_carl]

I live at Lake of the ozarks always fresh water boating mecca. The new boat sales here are 100k and up in values and any information know have had best year since 06.

[opas ride]

I live at Lake of the ozarks always fresh water boating mecca. The new boat sales here are 100k and up in values and any information know have had best year since 06.

Lots of people have lots of cash to spend in many parts of the country...Check out the docks in San Francisco or Miami Beach sometime....Most boats/toys are well over 100K and up...I'm just a little guy and really have no interest in boats so I'll stick with my $20K F6B for now....Ride safe

[adventurous1]

Okay, this is making me nervous...big picture:

-Harley is laying off employees due to slow sales
-Ford has suspended production of the F-150, Mustang and Taurus due to excessive inventory
-We have had 87 months of economic growth, one of the longest stretches in between recessions

Economists say that the auto market always precedes the full economy and use it as an indicator.

Yup. Good times nor bad times last forever. Unfortunately, most of America's public (aka 'the middle class') do not prepare for the downward business cycle (aka, the banks stop printing $ then retake people's homes who cannot pay mortagages because expansion and easy of $ has been purposely stopped by banks).

Trust everyone here is saving about 10 - 20 % of their weekly paycheck to always be prepared for this. Believe this downturn happens about every 5 to 7 yrs (historically speaking). This is the time where people who have been wise and saved can now purchase good used bikes (1-3 yrs old) from bikers who are desperate for $$$$ and in turn save thousands of dollars. Picked up my '13 B last March w/ 4K miles for 11K cash. Is that a 7 or 8K saving (factoring in depreciation of course) plus saving taxes, fees, etc. ? The savings from just one this 1 purchase alone, allowed me to enjoy 2 huge majestic and memorable bike vacations this year and then some.

From all accounts, that down cycle is coming soon to the middle class. And, I'm one of 'em.

[VStarRider]

Yup. Good times nor bad times last forever. Unfortunately, most of America's public (aka 'the middle class') do not prepare for the downward business cycle (aka, the banks stop printing $ then retake people's homes who cannot pay mortagages because expansion and easy of $ has been purposely stopped by banks).

Trust everyone here is saving about 10 - 20 % of their weekly paycheck to always be prepared for this. Believe this downturn happens about every 5 to 7 yrs (historically speaking). This is the time where people who have been wise and saved can now purchase good used bikes (1-3 yrs old) from bikers who are desperate for $$$$ and in turn save thousands of dollars. Picked up my '13 B last March w/ 4K miles for 11K cash. Is that a 7 or 8K saving (factoring in depreciation of course) plus saving taxes, fees, etc. ? The savings from just one this 1 purchase alone, allowed me to enjoy 2 huge majestic and memorable bike vacations this year and then some.

From all accounts, that down cycle is coming soon to the middle class. And, I'm one of 'em.

Good advice here. I burned through money in my 20s as if it would turn to dust if I didn't spend it as soon as I got it. I had brand new snowmobiles, WaveRunners, boats, ATVs, trucks, and probably some other stuff I am forgetting. Ended up $38k in credit card debt!

Different story now. Some tough, self-imposed lessons starting around 2008. About 80% of that debt is gone. The Mrs. and I live in a house that is well within our means (mortgage payment represents 20% of our take-home, not gross, pay; I drive a '14 Chevy Cruze, she drives a 2004 Mazda Tribute), we save 10% of our take home pay into savings and 15% of our gross into retirement accounts ( I am one of the few remaining workers with a pension). I have the bike and sleds and a camp, but all reasonably priced and either paid for or have low interest loans.

I get a lot of comfort from having some savings built up and a lot in retirement accounts. I am not bragging; this was not always the case. I was ready for bankruptcy about 8 years ago. Glad I saw the light!

I think if one (or a couple) keeps their housing costs in check, and can "survive" driving modest vehicles and keeping them for a long time, that is key to saving cash, for retirement, and being able to take vacations or have a bike, etc, etc. and not be buried in debt.

[opas ride]

Good advice here. I burned through money in my 20s as if it would turn to dust if I didn't spend it as soon as I got it. I had brand new snowmobiles, WaveRunners, boats, ATVs, trucks, and probably some other stuff I am forgetting. Ended up $38k in credit card debt!

Different story now. Some tough, self-imposed lessons starting around 2008. About 80% of that debt is gone. The Mrs. and I live in a house that is well within our means (mortgage payment represents 20% of our take-home, not gross, pay; I drive a '14 Chevy Cruze, she drives a 2004 Mazda Tribute), we save 10% of our take home pay into savings and 15% of our gross into retirement accounts ( I am one of the few remaining workers with a pension). I have the bike and sleds and a camp, but all reasonably priced and either paid for or have low interest loans.

I get a lot of comfort from having some savings built up and a lot in retirement accounts. I am not bragging; this was not always the case. I was ready for bankruptcy about 8 years ago. Glad I saw the light!

I think if one (or a couple) keeps their housing costs in check, and can "survive" driving modest vehicles and keeping them for a long time, that is key to saving cash, for retirement, and being able to take vacations or have a bike, etc, etc. and not be buried in debt.

Good discipline my friend...I did okay and thought all would be okay in retirement..Left the work force at 66 years old with a pension, social security, and, what I thought was a fairly decent retirement fund...Well 2008/9 hit and I lost over 75% of my 401K assets...8 years later I have only recovered about 15% of what I lost....My monthly income covers all my bills, etc. and I am doing okay for now...but our Medical costs now are over $800 a month, wife is Diabetic , etc. and her small Social Security check just covers our medical bills....Advise from the "know it all gods" say you will need at least $1 million in your retirement fund in todays world and if you retire today at 65 and live to be 85, you will spend over $360,000 in medical costs alone......Save, Save, Save......Don't want be a "doom sayer" as we are doing fine now at 77 years old, but it gets a little scary at times as things get crazy!!!...Ride safe