Packing for the Rally.

[Davidk]

Well, I see your reasoning, just don't agree with it. I don't want to live in that realm of paranoia. Wouldn't it just escalate to a point where I should be worried about carrying a 44 when a prosecutor could argue that a 32 would have done the same job and I just wanted to cause undue harm and guaranteed death? When it comes to my families safety and my safety, there is no worry or paranoia on the ammo or caliber I select. I shoot to kill, not to mame or warn........I'll leave that idiocy for Hollywood and the libtards.

Firearms training, including the use of force is my profession. Most of my training in this legal area comes from the top expert in the country on the legality of the use of force, Massad Ayoob. You should consider taking some classes from him.

[stroguy]

Seen plenty of Massad, good man, good information. I use his revolver reload religiously. I also train with an instructor with years of law enforcement and military and Blackwater training. I train with other educated professionals as well and the idea that any one of us would worry about a hot reload being used against us in a court of law never crosses our mind. Tomorrow is our regular Thursday class night and at Mexican dinner afterwards I will formally throw this on the table in between our hatred of hillary discussion and reloading for the next long range tournament.

[Davidk]

Seen plenty of Massad, good man, good information. I use his revolver reload religiously. I also train with an instructor with years of law enforcement and military and Blackwater training. I train with other educated professionals as well and the idea that any one of us would worry about a hot reload being used against us in a court of law never crosses our mind. Tomorrow is our regular Thursday class night and at Mexican dinner afterwards I will formally throw this on the table in between our hatred of hillary discussion and reloading for the next long range tournament.

I know Ayoob and his training well. He wrote the forword for my book. My proudest accomplishment in the field of training was Ayoob quoting me in a few of his articles

That's great that you are doing that training, but the issues that I brought up are unkown to most LE and Mil as they are not usually effected by them. Ayoob specializes in training and defending private citizens and the issues they face. Le and Mil dont face the same issues

Ayoob has mor knowledge and experience than anyone else in the county. He was the pioneer of firearms training for private citizens decades ago. When I started training there were not more than a handful of trainers in the country. Nothing like today

[stroguy]

LE and MIL are also not in the business to make money. Don't take this wrong but Massad is in this business to make money, as is Larry Vickers, Hackerthorn my Thursday night instructor Aaron Roberts. Creating a level of paranoia is a subconscious effort used by anyone in this type of business. Scaring folks sells. I am glad you have written a book and are in this profession I respect. But you also must create a level of apprehension and doubt on the average citizen or your book wouldn't be popular, if it is. I push back just a little bit because in reality when the shit hits the fan in the Wallyworld parking lot, the bad guy isn't playing by any rules, and one of us has to go home that night, preferably me. And if I believe a hot reload may be needed to go through two car doors to complete my protection if I am in that situation, then a hot reload is what I will carry in my firearm. I'll give you the results of our dinner discussion tomorrow. I'll save the hillaree battering to myself, it makes me sleep better. Good discussion David.

[Davidk]

LE and MIL are also not in the business to make money. Don't take this wrong but Massad is in this business to make money, as is Larry Vickers, Hackerthorn my Thursday night instructor Aaron Roberts. Creating a level of paranoia is a subconscious effort used by anyone in this type of business. Scaring folks sells. I am glad you have written a book and are in this profession I respect. But you also must create a level of apprehension and doubt on the average citizen or your book wouldn't be popular, if it is. I push back just a little bit because in reality when the shit hits the fan in the Wallyworld parking lot, the bad guy isn't playing by any rules, and one of us has to go home that night, preferably me. And if I believe a hot reload may be needed to go through two car doors to complete my protection if I am in that situation, then a hot reload is what I will carry in my firearm. I'll give you the results of our dinner discussion tomorrow. I'll save the hillaree battering to myself, it makes me sleep better. Good discussion David.

You obvously have training in the field and are a smart guy, but with all due respect, I, Ayoob, Vickers, Hackathorn (both of whom I also know) dont make money by creating doubt and apprehension, we make money solving doubt and apprehension

The fact that we make money does not negate the value of our teachings. We don't make stuff up to sell books. I teach what I live and live what I teach.

How will you explain it to the jury when your hot reload, loaded to be hotter than anything available by professional manufacturers, goes through two car doors and kills a 2-year old? Really think your reloads won't be used to convict you?

I've stated my case, the decision is up to you.

Oh, and by the way, how am I creating doubt and apprehension in order to make money, by giving you free advice?

[stroguy]

Oh lord, nevermind David. But you can't admit that TV shows that depict ultra dramatic self defense scenarios that the odds say are never going to happen to you aren't trying to create a bit of fear in the average Joe or Jane? I carry everyday I can, but I admit and am honest with myself that the odds say it most likely will never happen to me. You should be able to admit that the self defense industry has become an unbelievable industry that has exploded in profits for gun makers, holster makers, purse makers, ammo makers and on and on. Well guess how that industry, that you are in, explodes? They create the atmosphere that 'it can happen to you' and you better be prepared. That creates doubt and apprehension in the average JJ that they aren't ready. You solving that doubt and apprehension doesn't make you a salary? Buy my gun, buy my holster, buy my DVD, come to my workshop. When in reality the violent crime rate in this country has taken a big down turn over the last 20 years. And the reason? In Spring TX there about 10-15 violent crimes per month committed in the area that our local paper reports. Out of nearly 80,000 people, again, what are the odds that it will happen to me? I am prepared if it does, but why do we need to create this paranoia in Americans? Oh, wait, we can make profits from that. I'll check out of this argument but if you would please do me one favor and cite a few examples of case law where this scenario has happened. Someone using the incorrect ammo or any device outside of it's design parameters to defend themselves has been prosecuted. I need to read them so I can be better educated. Secondly, I said 'don't take this wrong'. You did. No insults were intended, but your self righteous blinders are on a bit tight. I am as self-righteous as they come, but am also pretty damn honest with myself.

Have a great day.

[willtill]

Oh lord, nevermind David. But you can't admit that TV shows that depict ultra dramatic self defense scenarios that the odds say are never going to happen to you aren't trying to create a bit of fear in the average Joe or Jane? I carry everyday I can, but I admit and am honest with myself that the odds say it most likely will never happen to me. You should be able to admit that the self defense industry has become an unbelievable industry that has exploded in profits for gun makers, holster makers, purse makers, ammo makers and on and on. Well guess how that industry, that you are in, explodes? They create the atmosphere that 'it can happen to you' and you better be prepared. That creates doubt and apprehension in the average JJ that they aren't ready. You solving that doubt and apprehension doesn't make you a salary? Buy my gun, buy my holster, buy my DVD, come to my workshop. When in reality the violent crime rate in this country has taken a big down turn over the last 20 years. And the reason? In Spring TX there about 10-15 violent crimes per month committed in the area that our local paper reports. Out of nearly 80,000 people, again, what are the odds that it will happen to me? I am prepared if it does, but why do we need to create this paranoia in Americans? Oh, wait, we can make profits from that. I'll check out of this argument but if you would please do me one favor and cite a few examples of case law where this scenario has happened. Someone using the incorrect ammo or any device outside of it's design parameters to defend themselves has been prosecuted. I need to read them so I can be better educated. Secondly, I said 'don't take this wrong'. You did. No insults were intended, but your self righteous blinders are on a bit tight. I am as self-righteous as they come, but am also pretty damn honest with myself.

Have a great day.

NICE post

There are some of us that CAN see the forest for the tree's.

[Davidk]

Oh lord, nevermind David. But you can't admit that TV shows that depict ultra dramatic self defense scenarios that the odds say are never going to happen to you aren't trying to create a bit of fear in the average Joe or Jane? I carry everyday I can, but I admit and am honest with myself that the odds say it most likely will never happen to me. You should be able to admit that the self defense industry has become an unbelievable industry that has exploded in profits for gun makers, holster makers, purse makers, ammo makers and on and on. Well guess how that industry, that you are in, explodes? They create the atmosphere that 'it can happen to you' and you better be prepared. That creates doubt and apprehension in the average JJ that they aren't ready. You solving that doubt and apprehension doesn't make you a salary? Buy my gun, buy my holster, buy my DVD, come to my workshop. When in reality the violent crime rate in this country has taken a big down turn over the last 20 years. And the reason? In Spring TX there about 10-15 violent crimes per month committed in the area that our local paper reports. Out of nearly 80,000 people, again, what are the odds that it will happen to me? I am prepared if it does, but why do we need to create this paranoia in Americans? Oh, wait, we can make profits from that. I'll check out of this argument but if you would please do me one favor and cite a few examples of case law where this scenario has happened. Someone using the incorrect ammo or any device outside of it's design parameters to defend themselves has been prosecuted. I need to read them so I can be better educated. Secondly, I said 'don't take this wrong'. You did. No insults were intended, but your self righteous blinders are on a bit tight. I am as self-righteous as they come, but am also pretty damn honest with myself.

Have a great day.

Thanks for showing me that I just wasted a whole lot of time. I will learn from this experience and endeavor to improve myself by trying not to do so again in the future