Working without a Soc Sec #

[adventurous1]

Found this site: http://famguardian.org/subjects/Taxe...ontaxpayer.htm

Spin on IRS Publication 1 to include Nontaxpayers:

http://sedm.org/libertyu/NontaxpayerBOR.pdf

Hey thanks for this info. Seems interesting maybe even a little quirky. I'll need to read up and check the validity of whatever they're espousing.

All I know is that I stopped using a SSN (tax ID #) about 14 yrs ago, and never looked back. Just noticed my checks increasing by 30 %. My Bank Account doesn't even have a tAX ID # associated with it. Because I asked for a 'non-interest bearing checking account'. Because 'interest' is 'taxable income'. With a non-interest bearing checking account, there's NOTHING to report to the Feds.

Fascinating what one can learn by reading a book and asking questions.

[willtill]

Adventurous1,

I don't think you are being crucified for what you have discovered, researched and are currently doing, to avoid paying Federal income tax. And I think you made some very good points (I will take them at face value for now).

It's just quite a shock initially on what you have been explaining to us.

Yes, we are members of the tax paying herd via income taxes towards an insurmountable national debt.... we're pretty much ineffective these days to really influence and turn back off of the wrong path that our politicians have taken us

Kudo's to you for finding this little financial respite and rebellion against the Fed. As it may enhance your personal financial freedoms; in the grand scheme of things.... you are still going to be circling the toilet bowl with the rest of us.

[jm21ddd15]

Adventurous1
In my posts, I never said you were doing anything illegal, by avoiding income tax. I don't like it either. The point I was making was, that in one way or another, you get some benefits by the income tax paid by the rest, whether it currently is paying off interest, or for some other government scheme.

[adventurous1]

Adventurous1,

I don't think you are being crucified for what you have discovered, researched and are currently doing, to avoid paying Federal income tax. And I think you made some very good points (I will take them at face value for now).

It's just quite a shock initially on what you have been explaining to us.

Yes, we are members of the tax paying herd via income taxes towards an insurmountable national debt.... we're pretty much ineffective these days to really influence and turn back off of the wrong path that our politicians have taken us

Kudo's to you for finding this little financial respite and rebellion against the Fed. As it may enhance your personal financial freedoms; in the grand scheme of things.... you are still going to be circling the toilet bowl with the rest of us.

Ain't that the truth. Yes, you are also correct. A few HR/ Accountants who've seen my paperwork over the years - still can't believe their eyes. Most have just passed it up the food chain to supervisors or to the payroll / pay check cutting vendor (ADP which is the largest in America) and then it's never a problem. Others have asked CPA's and attorneys to only come back and say "You're correct. Never heard about this before." Knew over a decade ago when my paperwork passed the legal department at ADP - and SONY pictures, that this was going to be my path.

btw, the national debt can never be paid off. It's set up that way. We use fractional banking - 'loaning money that's not physically in existence). When Congress asks the Federal Reserve to print a Billion Dollars, the Fed Res says 'ok', then prints the money - gives it to Congress. Congress now owes a Billion PLUS INTEREST. Guess what? 'no money' has been printed to pay the interest. When I discovered that then it dawned on me why the country will also be in perpetual debt. It's designed that way.

As another member stated earlier, I'm holding out for hope but I ain't leaving my country.

[ths61]

Hey thanks for this info. Seems interesting maybe even a little quirky. I'll need to read up and check the validity of whatever they're espousing.

All I know is that I stopped using a SSN (tax ID #) about 14 yrs ago, and never looked back. Just noticed my checks increasing by 30 %. My Bank Account doesn't even have a tAX ID # associated with it. Because I asked for a 'non-interest bearing checking account'. Because 'interest' is 'taxable income'. With a non-interest bearing checking account, there's NOTHING to report to the Feds.

Fascinating what one can learn by reading a book and asking questions.

I thought this one was interesting (Select 1.4.2 Withholding Forms, then select 04.201 Tax Form Attachment - Page 2 & 3 of 15, What I Am, What I Am Not):

http://sedm.org/Forms/FormIndex.htm

I wonder what the IRS thinks of this document. Looks like they are binding it to religion in some regards.

I guess they don't like it: https://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...Injunction.pdf

Looks like the court is going after all of his clientele lists.

[taxfree4]

Ain't that the truth. Yes, you are also correct. A few HR/ Accountants who've seen my paperwork over the years - still can't believe their eyes. Most have just passed it up the food chain to supervisors or to the payroll / pay check cutting vendor (ADP which is the largest in America) and then it's never a problem. Others have asked CPA's and attorneys to only come back and say "You're correct. Never heard about this before." Knew over a decade ago when my paperwork passed the legal department at ADP - and SONY pictures, that this was going to be my path.

btw, the national debt can never be paid off. It's set up that way. We used fractional banking - 'loaning money that's not physically in existence). When Congress asks the Federal Reserve to print a Billion Dollars, the Fed Res says 'ok', then prints the money - gives it to Congress. Congress now owes a Billion PLUS INTEREST. Guess what? 'no money' has been printed to pay the interest. When I discovered that then it dawned on me why the country will also be in perpetual debt. It's designed that way.

As another member stated earlier, I'm holding out for hope but I ain't leaving my country.

Just remember accountants are not presumed to know the law as evidenced by the fact if they put you in a tax shelter and the IRS disallows it YOU are penalized and have to make up the shortfall plus interest. And if tax attorneys were truthful they wouldn't be litigating a tax that they know is voluntary, however, their first obligation is to the court.

[adventurous1]

Adventurous1
In my posts, I never said you were doing anything illegal, by avoiding income tax. I don't like it either. The point I was making was, that in one way or another, you get some benefits by the income tax paid by the rest, whether it currently is paying off interest, or for some other government scheme.

Respectfully, once again I have to disagree. I receive no benefit of taxpayers paying what they're liable for - the Grace commission placed that argument to rest 40 yrs ago. Just as I receive no benefit of U.S. troops / State national guardsmen and women / mercenaries unconstitutionally invading sovereign countries and slaughtering men, women,and children w/o a Dec Of War. If and /or when Congress declares War, then I will support said effort 100 %. There's no benefit to America for occupying countries for decades. However, are there corporate benefits (aka "American interests") to soldiers being maimed and slaughtered in other countries? Yup.

So I left the plantation mentality when I discovered the truth. Just enjoying every day that I'm blessed to be walking (or riding ) this earth.....especially meeting people along the journey.

btw, the national debt can never be paid off. It's set up that way. Having a belief we have to pay down the debt is rather foolish. We use fractional banking - 'loaning money that's not physically in existence). When Congress asks the Federal Reserve to print a Billion Dollars, the Fed Res says 'ok', then prints a Billion dollars out of thin air and gives it to Congress. Congress now owes a Billion PLUS INTEREST. Guess what? 'no money' has been printed to pay the interest. When I discovered that then it dawned on me why the country will also be in perpetual debt. It's designed that way. Also, the United States Treasury is supposed to be coining our money. INTEREST FREE.

[adventurous1]

Just remember accountants are not presumed to know the law as evidenced by the fact if they put you in a tax shelter and the IRS disallows it YOU are penalized and have to make up the shortfall plus interest. And if tax attorneys were truthful they wouldn't be litigating a tax that they know is voluntary, however, their first obligation is to the court.

Yes, that's exactly correct. Case in point, our current company's HR/ Accountant said the CPA demanded I provide a SSN. He said, "It's the law." When he finally saw my paperwork, he backed waaaaay off.

Besides, so called "Professionals" being extremely ignorant and/or arrogant, if people stopped using SSN's - these accountants, CPA's, and tax prep professionals would be out of a job.

[adventurous1]

I thought this one was interesting (Select 1.4.2 Withholding Forms, then select 04.201 Tax Form Attachment - Page 2 & 3 of 15, What I Am, What I Am Not):

http://sedm.org/Forms/FormIndex.htm

I wonder what the IRS thinks of this document. Looks like they are binding it to religion in some regards.

Hmmmm.....I'll look this up later tonight. Like to investigate things somewhat before I provide my thoughts.

btw, most IRS people don't even know their own codes. That's why they CANNOT be held responsible if they've given a Citizen the wrong info. The courts are very clear - YOU are responsible for your own paperwork. Also, if you're ever requested to come in and/or have a meeting with the IRS, you are allowed to video and audio tape the entire meeting. Let then know in advance that said video will be posted on youtube. Most times, the IRS will completely leave you alone from that moment forward.

[taxfree4]

There are good people on both sides of this argument and I've had knock down drag out fights and nothing gets solved, everyone just retreats to their respectable corners. It definitely gets the adrenalin going and makes for great conversation.