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Thread: Possible blow out with fuse A?

  1. #21
    Member masonmike's Avatar
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    I'd have to get back to you on the number. I recall 3rd from the bottom on the right side column. Could have been #29. I still find it odd that the radio, intercom and USB port would not function at all without the clock fuse in place. As well the clock would keep time only while the bike was running. Whenever I turned off the ignition, the clock would reset back to 1:00. I find it odd that the clock and radio would share their function on two separate circuits. I'm sure there is a logical reason why Honda has done this. Again guys, thanks for your interest, very much appreciated.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmike View Post
    Problem solved! It was probably the reset by disconnecting the battery, that initially resolved the problem. Those damn gremlins! I'm sorry the solution wasn't more technical. Yes, I feel like an dummy, but a very happy dummy. Thanks again for all your interest.
    Glad you got it fixed and it wasn't a bigger and expensive problem. (DOH! I completely forgot to look at my service manual yesterday.) You've learned electronics rule number one: It's usually the last thing somebody messed with!

    Quote Originally Posted by masonmike View Post
    Thanks for all your interest and the many suggestions guys. I decided to take the suggestion and carefully double check the fuse box...(W)hen initially checking out the problem, I must have put the fuse for the clock back in the wrong spot. Behold!!! Now the clock works, as well as the radio! Yet, the radio has it's own separate fuse, which was perfectly fine. Another mystery?
    Probably the fuse box shape and SOME of the fuses are the same. Obviously different models have different electrical circuits and fuses but the layout is usually close. The "clock" fuse will be constantly powered so the clock keeps time when the key is off. Probably, that same 12VDC is needed to keep the radio stations memory the AUX USB selection, and individual audio settings stored. Must also be something beyond those needs to operate the radio. The ACC/Audio fuse is keyed through the ACC relay.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member F6Dave's Avatar
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    Here's a question for the electronics guys: why don't vehicle radios and clocks use non-volatile memory (like in flash drives) so the presets and clock time don't get lost when the battery is disconnected?

  4. #24
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    Because they would need to incorporate a battery into each item. Now they would have to decide is it going to be a rechargeable battery or one like inside of things like computers, yes there’s button batteries in side your computer. If it were say a rechargeable battery it would also need a system to supply power to the charging system. That would be required of every thing that now goes blank when battery power is lost. $ and weight.

  5. #25
    Senior Member rdbonds's Avatar
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    Sorcerer - 100% agree with you that the clock would need a battery still, to keep the time counting. For radio station presets, I think non-volatile RAM (EEPROM, etc) would work, since there's only the need for storage of information, not time-keeping. I agree with you though that even that small improvement is held up by cost, since volatile RAM is much cheaper.

  6. #26
    Senior Member F6Dave's Avatar
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    I did some online research into the memory in automotive electronics. I always thought it would make sense to use non-volatile memory, which requires no power at all to retain information (like a USB flash drive), to store data like the station presets. Apparently newer 'infotainment' systems do use flash RAM to store information entered by the user. Modern vehicles store much more information than radio presets. They retain seat position settings, bluetooth phone and other streaming device ids, and favorite locations for the nav system. Reentering all of this after simply disconnecting the battery would be a chore. Since the newer Wings have Apple Carplay (and maybe added Android Auto) I wouldn't be surprised if they use non-volatile memory too.

    On a related subject, I always wondered how those old car radios with the 5 mechanical preset buttons worked. It was pretty neat that you could tune to a station, pull a button out, then press it all the way to somehow store the dial location in that particular button. I finally got curious and found a diagram online. It's amazing how things worked back in the pre-digital age.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by F6Dave View Post
    Here's a question for the electronics guys: why don't vehicle radios and clocks use non-volatile memory (like in flash drives) so the presets and clock time don't get lost when the battery is disconnected?
    It has to come down to cost. Why install non-volatile memory or a "watch" battery when you already have a constant 12VDC source. Yes, you would keep everything "stored" when one removes the leads to the battery but that SHOULD happen on very FEW occasions. Also it would take a LOT more to power a crystal oscillator and keep a timer/clock going than a standard USB has to simply refresh it's "stored" ones and zeros data.

    It does make sense for the radio and other settings but adds more cost to an industry that has done it the other way for many years.
    Last edited by SeaSteve; 04-26-2021 at 09:25 AM.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member F6Dave's Avatar
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    I know this went a little off topic, and thankfully the original problem was solved, however yesterday I got to see how newer vehicles store all the information we enter. My 4 year old car's battery was getting a bit questionable, thanks to sitting in the garage a lot during the year of COVID, so I replaced it. The car has a fairly high-end infotainment system, with satellite radio, nav system, and Sirius 'Travel Link' providing live traffic info and weather maps along with gas prices and even ski conditions.

    When I powered it up the clock was an hour behind, so I assume it grabbed the non-daylight savings time from a GPS satellite. The tire pressures were blank, but those should refresh as soon as I drive it. But everything else I checked was there. It still has my AM/FM/sat radio presets. It has the Bluetooth pairing settings for 3 phones. It kept my memorized seat position. And it also has the recent POI addresses I searched for in the nav system. So it looks like newer vehicles are using flash RAM or some other kind of non-volatile memory to save most of the data we enter.

  9. #29
    Senior Member 98valk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmike View Post
    Thanks for all your interest and the many suggestions guys. We have electrical engineers on this forum, good to know. Surprised by all the attention this thread was getting, I decided to take the suggestion and carefully double check the fuse box. By the way, the fuse box diagram sent does't resemble mine in the least. I have at least 8 empty spaces. That being said, when initially checking out the problem, I must have put the fuse for the clock back in the wrong spot. Behold!!! Now the clock works, as well as the radio! Yet, the radio has it's own separate fuse, which was perfectly fine. Another mystery? Problem solved! It was probably the reset by disconnecting the battery, that initially resolved the problem. Those damn gremlins! I'm sorry the solution wasn't more technical. Yes, I feel like an dummy, but a very happy dummy. Thanks again for all your interest.
    Just for future reference: Here is a diagram from my manual for a 2013 F6B. Maybe this is like yours? Fuse #29 is labeled "CLOCK FUSE". I should have simply looked at the label vs the schematics.

    100_6620.jpg
    Last edited by 98valk; 04-28-2021 at 01:51 PM.
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  10. #30
    Member masonmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98valk View Post
    Just for future reference: Here is a diagram from my manual for a 2013 F6B. Maybe this is like yours? Fuse #29 is labeled "CLOCK FUSE". I should have simply looked at the label vs the schematics.

    100_6620.jpg
    Thanks 98 Valk, yes that is my fuse box and yes I agree, the label is far easier to read than the schematics. Still I managed to put the fuse for the clock in the wrong spot... UGH!!!
    I can only say, that will be less likely to happen again.
    09 Red Vulcan 500 (sold)
    11 Black Vulcan 900 (sold)
    13 Black F6b (they'll never be another)

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